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In this Episode
Sandro Dazzan is a case study in how you build a remarkable and authentic real estate brand in a local community. His local community happens to be one of the most famous neighborhoods in the world, Malibu, California where billionaires around the world seek to live. We talk with Sandro shortly after the Malibu fires devastated the area, with the industry coping and rebuilding. Enjoy and leave us a review!
Sandro Dazzan: [00:00:00] My first sale, I was still a senior at UCLA when I got my license.
Warren Dow: Oh wow.
Sandro Dazzan: One of my wealthy friends that was actually going to UCLA at the time, wanted to purchase a condo in the Wilshire corridor.
[00:00:21] Warren Dow: [00:00:21] So you’re like “hey I can help”
[00:00:22] Sandro Dazzan: [00:00:22] So my first sale was a $1.5 million sale. Yeah.
[00:00:24] Warren Dow: [00:00:24] Nice. That’s the way to kickstart—
[00:00:26] Sandro Dazzan: [00:00:26] Yeah it’s—I made more on that deal than what Morgan Stanley had offered me for the first year of work, so that definitely solidified my decision to go into real estate.
[00:00:46] Warren Dow: [00:00:46] Welcome to DIGS Influencer Podcast, the Titans of Real Estate. The show that provides direct access to the real estate industry’s top movers and shakers as they share invaluable insight on how to best navigate and succeed in any market. I’m your host, Warren Dow, founder and CEO of m3 media and publisher of DIGS magazine.
[00:01:09] In this episode, Sandro Dazzan.
[00:01:19] Thank you to our show sponsor bow concept. Today’s guest is lucky enough to call Malibu, California, his home as one of the top real estate agents in the country, and as the managing partner of the Agency’s Malibu office. Please welcome to the show, Sandro Dazzan.
[00:01:36] Sandro Dazzan: [00:01:36] Thank you for having me.
[00:01:37] Warren Dow: [00:01:37] Awesome. So let’s start from the beginning.
[00:01:38] You’re one of those rare individuals who were born and raised in Malibu, California. Tell us your story.
[00:01:44] Sandro Dazzan: [00:01:44] Yeah. So I was born and raised here. I went to Webster Elementary school, Malibu High. It was truly a dream, uh, being able to, uh, grow up here playing, uh, a AYO soccer and baseball on the Bluffs park with the ocean in the background.
[00:02:00] Graduating high school with, you know, 30 kids that I went to kindergarten with. So it was truly an amazing experience for sure.
[00:02:06] Warren Dow: [00:02:06] So Malibu is in my mind, I grew up in Westlake village, which is not too far from out of Malibu’s paradise. So what’s it like growing up in paradise?
[00:02:15] Sandro Dazzan: [00:02:15] It’s something about just the rural character of our community.
[00:02:20] The open space. I grew up in a time before cell phones, so we were always outside playing, whether it was surfing or , you know? Yeah, exactly. Or you know, just using our imagination and being outdoors and to hear malware. There’s tons of open space, and whether it’s the beaches or the mountains, we kind of have it all here.
[00:02:42] Warren Dow: [00:02:42] So when you were young, do you think you realized. How special this place was when you were young or I
[00:02:47] Sandro Dazzan: [00:02:47] realized at a young age, probably when I was about 13 or 14 when we started traveling for baseball and pony league, we would go to the different neighborhoods. We would play Simi Valley or Sylmar, and we would go to their fields and I would see where they lived, and then we were playing with the ocean at our back.
[00:03:06] I was like, wow, we’re, we’re very lucky to, to be able to live here and, and be in this community. So
[00:03:12] Warren Dow: [00:03:12] let me throw you a twist. What kind of trouble did you get into when you were, when you were a kid?
[00:03:16] Sandro Dazzan: [00:03:16] Oh, the typical stuff, you know, shooting BB guns, breaking neighbors’ windows with rocks, and you’re a little kids, but not too much trouble.
[00:03:25] Never, never arrested.
[00:03:27] Warren Dow: [00:03:27] All right. Good. Clean record. Clean for the record. Clean record. Yeah. Did you have a nickname growing up?
[00:03:33] Sandro Dazzan: [00:03:33] Yeah, I have lots of nicknames cause my name is very unusual. It’s Italian. It’s short for Alessandro. My friends growing up called me DRO Sandy, the Sandman. Uh, I can go on and on
[00:03:46] Warren Dow: [00:03:46] that’s great.
[00:03:47] When you were young, did you have any early career aspirations when you were like, in high school or even before, like, Hey, when I grow up, I want to be a pro surfer. I want to be,
[00:03:57] Sandro Dazzan: [00:03:57] um, you know, once I was in high school, you know. Always kind of wanted to be in finance or banking. I just thought that it sounded cool and glamorous and a lot of money, you know?
[00:04:08] So I went to UCLA and studied economics and thought that’s what I wanted to do. And intern with Morgan Stanley for a summer and realize that being in a cubicle suit and tie indoors wasn’t for me. And unfortunately
[00:04:22] Warren Dow: [00:04:22] not very Malibu.
[00:04:24] Sandro Dazzan: [00:04:24] No, it wasn’t. And I didn’t really realize, you know what I was used to. So it was definitely a shock to the system.
[00:04:30] I’m glad I didn’t go that route.
[00:04:31] Warren Dow: [00:04:31] No, that makes total sense. So last November Malibu was devastated by the Woolsey fire, which burned, I think just under a hundred thousand acres and destroyed over 1600 buildings. And. I believe destroyed over 600 homes. So as a Malibu local and insider, tell us about the impact that that horrible fire had on the community.
[00:04:53] Sandro Dazzan: [00:04:53] Yeah, it was very devastating. You know, I’ve been through three or four fires growing up here in Malibu. They’re always very scary. It’s a way of life. It’s mother nature out here. This one is definitely the largest and move the fastest and the most devastating. But what is. I think great is to see how our community’s able to come together in a time like this or anybody that needs anything, the way that people were bringing in supplies by boat.
[00:05:20] Everybody just drops everything and we’ll do anything really be a good neighbor
[00:05:24] Warren Dow: [00:05:24] rallying together. Yeah.
[00:05:25] Sandro Dazzan: [00:05:25] Yeah. So that was great to see. And we will rebuild and rebuild stronger and we’ll plan better. So for the next fire, we’ll be better prepared
[00:05:35] Warren Dow: [00:05:35] the only through something that devastating. Do you think.
[00:05:38] Anything has changed forever in terms of like, it’ll never be the same. Like is there any component in the community that that has been forever altered?
[00:05:47] Sandro Dazzan: [00:05:47] You know, I think if anything, it’s going to be how we react to the next fire. I think our goal is to learn how to grow and adapt with climate change.
[00:05:58] With these fires getting bigger and faster, how we can protect ourselves and our community and our loved ones and our animals. That’s what’s really gonna change. But everything else about Malibu and why it’s special and beautiful is always going to be here for sure.
[00:06:12] Warren Dow: [00:06:12] In terms of real estate and let’s you know, home pricing, how has that affected the fire effected pricing and or just across the board?
[00:06:21] Sandro Dazzan: [00:06:21] Well, as far as the activity, it’s the market basically shut down for three to four months after the fire. We had the fire. Then we had. A very intense rain season in the winter, so that, you know, we had about our units sold and our total volume sold and all in Malibu is down about 50% year to date compared to last year, which is understanding because of the fire and basically everything shut down for several months.
[00:06:46] And that being said, we’re not really seeing downward pressure on prices yet. Because the market went on pause for several months. The inventory also decrease dramatically. Typically, we hover around 230 homes on the market between on the beach and off the beach. Right now, we just got up to about 190 so we’re still not at our typical level inventory level, which has been the same.
[00:07:09] You know, we’d been at that two 30 level for several years. We always kind of hover around that. So once the inventory gets back to normal and we don’t see the sales. Kind of keep up and then we may see downward pressure on prices, but as of right now, we’re not seeing that yet.
[00:07:24] Warren Dow: [00:07:24] So with that supply constraint, you might see a consistent or even uptick in demand over the mid, mid to long term.
[00:07:31] Sandro Dazzan: [00:07:31] Yeah, exactly. And we’re actually seeing, I mean, year to date, our median sale price is actually a tick higher than it was this time last year.
[00:07:39] Warren Dow: [00:07:39] Well. So what about insure-ability? I have a friend whose home was unfortunately burned down in white doom area, and we were talking about just how crazy the insurance and homeowners insurance and going forward, how difficult.
[00:07:51] It’s going to be to get it. What’s that look like right now?
[00:07:54] Sandro Dazzan: [00:07:54] It is difficult. We have a a few resources that are providing insurance. It’s extremely expensive and in certain areas they’re definitely requiring proper brush clearance. They’re doing site inspections. They’re going to want certain trees cut down around houses to obtain the insurance.
[00:08:10] I’m doing that without right now where a seller of a property in escrow is having to remove a tree that’s next to the house so they can get an insured, but we can still get it done. We have a few resources.
[00:08:20] Warren Dow: [00:08:20] So you mentioned earlier that you got a degree from UCLA economics. That’s what my degree was. Oh, UC Santa Barbara.
[00:08:27] So just down the hall or up the coast. So I want to ask you, tell us about your life before real estate.
[00:08:33] Sandro Dazzan: [00:08:33] Well, before real estate, I went into real estate right after graduating UCLA. My mother was in the business. She’s still in the business spin in it since I was born. So that’s what got me into it. So before it was UCLA and high school, a lot of surfing, a lot of skiing.
[00:08:49] A lot of family time, you know? Definitely. You know, being outdoors is my favorite thing to do. We don’t live near the snow, but I spend a lot of time skiing and mammoth and traveling and heli skiing in British Columbia. So that’s definitely one of my passions.
[00:09:02] Warren Dow: [00:09:02] Is mammoth, your GoTo
[00:09:03] Sandro Dazzan: [00:09:03] mammoth. My GoTo, we have a place there, so I try and get as many days as I can, which is becoming less and less every year as they get busier with a business.
[00:09:11] But I try and do at least two heli trips a year where I can get, you know, eight days of powder skiing will usually keep me happy.
[00:09:20] Warren Dow: [00:09:20] Ski versus snowboard ski versus, yes. You’re old school still. I love it. Still
[00:09:24] Sandro Dazzan: [00:09:24] small. Yeah.
[00:09:25] Warren Dow: [00:09:25] All right. So tell us about your family was in real estate. Tell us about how they got into real estate.
[00:09:31] Sandro Dazzan: [00:09:31] And all that. Uh, my mother’s, yep. Been selling real estate since four. I was born in 1980 got into the business cause she was always a great sales woman.
[00:09:39] Warren Dow: [00:09:39] That’s Irene, right? That’s Irene. She has been very successful, been very
[00:09:41] Sandro Dazzan: [00:09:41] successful. She started with Fred sands and Beverly Hills, then moved to the Palisades.
[00:09:47] I was a top agent with John Douglas that then became a Coldwell banker and it’s still a top agent and that’s who I learned from and owe all my success to for sure.
[00:09:58] Warren Dow: [00:09:58] Very cool. So you had that in the DNA. So what was the year you started selling officially selling real estate?
[00:10:03] Sandro Dazzan: [00:10:03] It would’ve been 2005 which was actually a, my first sale.
[00:10:08] I was still a senior at, at UCLA when I got my license. Oh wow. One of my wealthy friends that was actually going to UCLA at the time, wanting to purchase a condo in the Wilshire corridor.
[00:10:18] Warren Dow: [00:10:18] So you’re like for a second.
[00:10:19] Sandro Dazzan: [00:10:19] So a one point $5 million sale. Yeah.
[00:10:21] Warren Dow: [00:10:21] Nice. That’s a good way to kickstart Dave, is
[00:10:23] Sandro Dazzan: [00:10:23] I made more on that deal than what Morgan Stanley had offered me for the first year of works.
[00:10:28] That definitely solidified my decision to go into real estate.
[00:10:31] Warren Dow: [00:10:31] You know, it’s funny, it’s sort of a double edged sword though, right? Cause like that’s sort of the myth. The real estate. Oh it’s so easy. It is. You know, every, every sale is 2 million and you’re, you’re getting 40 $50,000 paychecks. And so that’s how you have this huge influx of agents you’re after here.
[00:10:46] Sandro Dazzan: [00:10:46] Yes. Everybody thinks it’s easy, but it’s a lot of hard work. The way I learned was being an assistant, being paid hourly by my mother, and the only way you learn the business is by seeing the transactions. So I was fortunate enough to step into an office that was doing tons of volume, lots of transactions.
[00:11:04] So after about five years working in the business, I had. More experienced than some people, you know, doing, being in the business for 10 years. Yeah. And slowly work my way up to a partner with my mom.
[00:11:15] Warren Dow: [00:11:15] And that’s great. So it’s funny because any sales commission type business, and I have been in sales all my life, and now I’m an entrepreneur.
[00:11:23] You have to have this certain sort of. Makeup, you know, because it’s feast or famine, right? Totally. It’s your hero or zero and there’s huge, you
[00:11:31] Sandro Dazzan: [00:11:31] got to be hungry and you got to bust your
[00:11:33] Warren Dow: [00:11:33] ass. You got to figure it out. Right? And you have to figure how to do it consistently, and
[00:11:37] Sandro Dazzan: [00:11:37] you have to love it. I mean, I think the reason I’ve been successful is because I love and I believe in what I sell, and that’s now the real estate in this community.
[00:11:46] And people are drawn towards me because they see my passion for Malibu.
[00:11:52] Warren Dow: [00:11:52] Yeah. That’s awesome. So your first sale, 1.5 million, not bad, Sandro, what was your biggest sale?
[00:11:59] Sandro Dazzan: [00:11:59] Uh, my biggest sale was actually a $50 million land deal, which was the highest land sale in the history of Malvin.
[00:12:05] Warren Dow: [00:12:05] Nice. Yeah, that’s a big, that’s a big deal.
[00:12:08] Sandro Dazzan: [00:12:08] It was a big deal. Yeah.
[00:12:09] Warren Dow: [00:12:09] Where did they end up doing with that land? Was it developed.
[00:12:12] Sandro Dazzan: [00:12:12] Fully entitled for five homes, which right now my client, Scott Gillan, who purchased it, is developing five unbelievable mid century style homes
[00:12:21] Warren Dow: [00:12:21] and what Scott owns, what’s the name of his company?
[00:12:24] Sandro Dazzan: [00:12:24] A unvarnished
[00:12:26] Warren Dow: [00:12:26] I’ve seen, I’ve heard about that.
[00:12:27] Sandro Dazzan: [00:12:27] Yeah. He’s the biggest, most successful developer here in Malibu. And I represent the castle, which we have listed for 75 million that’s on the market right now. And the case is the, uh, the land deal that. I was just referring to, which are five architectural homes, um, the right on the bluff adjacent to the Bluffs park.
[00:12:45] Warren Dow: [00:12:45] What’s the story behind the castle again?
[00:12:47] Sandro Dazzan: [00:12:47] So the castle actually used to be a Scottish castle that was built by a dentist in the late seventies, early eighties. It burned in the 2007 fire to the ground. Um, I sold it to Scott, uh, back in 2011 or 12. He then. Built a new spec home, which we’d done. The new castle doesn’t resemble a castle.
[00:13:10] It’s a very contemporary and lots of glass and amazing views, and 85 foot three sided infinity edge pool that drops into the ocean right over Surfrider beach. But we call it the new castle because the old castle was a landmark in Malibu. You would drive by cross Creek and look up on the Hill.
[00:13:26] Warren Dow: [00:13:26] I remember that as a kid.
[00:13:27] Yeah. That’s really cool. So in real estate or just in life, what do you think has been your biggest failure or mistake, sort of lesson learned that you can look back and go, you know, this was a moment that I really had an impact on me?
[00:13:43] Sandro Dazzan: [00:13:43] That’s a great question. I mean, there’s been lots of mistakes along the way.
[00:13:47] I would say it’d have to be with communication that I’ve learned over the years is lack of communication in real estate is. What causes mistakes or failures and in life. So, uh, for me and my business, definitely one of the best lessons I’ve learned is, is communication is key.
[00:14:06] Warren Dow: [00:14:06] For sure. Yeah. I couldn’t agree more.
[00:14:09] I always say communication is the greatest tool that we have. And in life and in business and whatever, in marriage,
[00:14:15] Sandro Dazzan: [00:14:15] completely in all aspects of life for sure. You know,
[00:14:17] Warren Dow: [00:14:17] and you’ve got to use it and understand it wisely because it is make or break, you know, and a lot of levels. I think I know the answer to this question, but tell us who’s been the biggest influence on you and your career has made the most impact.
[00:14:30] Sandro Dazzan: [00:14:30] Well, definitely my mother, because that is, she’s the one who got me into the business. I learned the most from, or we were partners for 12 years. So, uh, I came over here to the agency about a year and a half ago, and. A lot. Most of not everything that I’ve learned and become successful with it was from my mom for
[00:14:48] Warren Dow: [00:14:48] sure.
[00:14:48] It’s a great story. So what are you proudest of?
[00:14:51] Sandro Dazzan: [00:14:51] Well, I’m proudest of my new son who was born about six and a half months ago, for sure. Yeah. So being able to raise him in the community where I grew up in is, you know, been always one of my number one wishes and dreams in life. And now I have him here and I have a wonderful fiance.
[00:15:10] So I’m definitely proud of, uh, our, our new young family.
[00:15:13] Warren Dow: [00:15:13] Good for you. That’s great. Great to hear. So I’m going to backtrack a bit. We talked about you, the person. So I think we have a beginning idea of Sandro and who Sandro is, but I want to give our audience some context around some of the amazing things you’ve accomplished in this industry.
[00:15:29] And correct me if I’m wrong on some of these stats, but currently have over $300 million in listing inventory that’s active on the market. Last year you did over 160 million and sales and transactions. You currently have three active Malibu listings over 40 million. Yup. Which is amazing. We have some
[00:15:49] Sandro Dazzan: [00:15:49] off market wants too, but those are active.
[00:15:51] Warren Dow: [00:15:51] And then we talked about it a little bit. I want to hear more in a bit about your role as managing partner of the agency’s Malibu office. And you were previously on the top producing real estate team at Coldwell with Irene. Yes. How many years was that?
[00:16:02] Sandro Dazzan: [00:16:02] About 1213 years. Yeah.
[00:16:05] Warren Dow: [00:16:05] You have had the highest land sale ever in Malibu.
[00:16:08] 50 million. Yep. You’ve been featured on Forbes 30 under 30 list and you’ve been consistently ranked among the top agents in the country, so congratulations. All your success. It’s not. Thank you. Not as easy feat. I commend you to keep, and you’re having even a better start to 2019 than you didn’t.
[00:16:24] Sandro Dazzan: [00:16:24] Yeah, last year was the best year of my career and this year has actually started off even considering the fire, uh, better than last year.
[00:16:31] Warren Dow: [00:16:31] that’s phenomenal. So let’s dive into real estate a little bit more. The markets and neighborhoods you represent here in Malibu are some of the most influent and exclusive in the country. And we talked about the fires and I want to ask you some more questions relative to real estate around the fires this year.
[00:16:48] 2019 you know, they talk about real estate cycles being every, you know, eight nine, 10 years. Right. And it seemingly, we’re at the end of one and the beginning of another. Sure. So, you know, buyers and sellers, I’m sure they’re always asking you, Hey, is it good time to sell a good time to buy? What’s your take on that?
[00:17:06] Right now
[00:17:06] Sandro Dazzan: [00:17:06] I’m a longterm believer in Malibu real estate. I believe it’s going up. If you’re buying for the longterm, you’re not going to lose here in Malibu. It’s becoming more and more popular every year. It’s becoming more and more global and international. The people that are coming here from all over the world are coming here because of the amenities that we’re getting now.
[00:17:27] 10 years ago, Malibu did not have the amenities that we have. We just had whole foods that opened up a whole new shopping center. You know what Nobu and Soho house and the Nobu hotel, the draw, the international, you know, wealth that has been drawn because of those venues has been huge and a big draw for the high end.
[00:17:45] Now the real estate market as well.
[00:17:47] Warren Dow: [00:17:47] So take us back to 2008 when the market dumped along with the great recession. How bad was Malibu hit relative to like, did it go down 5% 4%
[00:17:58] Sandro Dazzan: [00:17:58] of it was down. Certain areas in Malibu, especially off the beach, were down as much as 50%
[00:18:03] Warren Dow: [00:18:03] wow. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:18:04] Sandro Dazzan: [00:18:04] Wow. Yeah. Some areas at Malibu are just recovered to the pre-crash levels.
[00:18:10] About a year ago.
[00:18:12] Warren Dow: [00:18:12] Wow. So let’s break down the Malibu market. I think this would be interesting. Like the South Bay market, as you know, real estate is local within the local Zillow can understand and you know the people that are looking from afar, from a macro lens that you know, even a zip code, there’s multiple different neighborhoods and within those neighborhoods, even street level has different vibes, price points.
[00:18:36] So break down Malibu for us. You got the obviously Malibu beach and you got so break.
[00:18:40] Sandro Dazzan: [00:18:40] It is very technical. Uh, I think a lot of people don’t know that, you know, it’s 27 miles long. So 27 miles of coastline, I mean, every half mile can be completely different than the next. So you have all these different neighborhoods, you have different beaches, you have the canyons, which are the arteries that lead to the Valley, and each Canyon has its own neighborhood.
[00:19:00] So you have all these, you have off the beach, you have beach front, and then you have neighborhoods that are on the beach side. Of the highway like point doom. So it’s very tricky. It’s hard to learn the market. It takes time. I think that’s why we don’t see too many big international buyers. You really have to have, uh, the desire for the Malibu lifestyle to buy in Malibu investors.
[00:19:23] It might take a little bit too much time to learn the market. It might be easier for them to go to Santa Monica or Beverly Hills.
[00:19:30] Warren Dow: [00:19:30] Well, if we’re going to talk about this later, but do you think about the value that a realtor brings. To, you know the transaction and you’re talking about all this I buyer and all this stuff going on.
[00:19:42] Malibu is a case study for like, if you don’t, especially, you need to hire a, someone like you who understands every nook and cranny because imagine. Searching, realtor.com Malibu. Yeah. You’ve no clue.
[00:19:55] Sandro Dazzan: [00:19:55] That’s why I love my job. It’s for me, it’s, it’s so fun when I get a buyer that’s from, say, Chicago, that I had here last week, and you know, they’d been to Malibu maybe once or twice or rented a house once for a weekend.
[00:20:06] And now they want to think about buying and it will come out here and they’ll have an idea of what they want. And after, you know, an afternoon with me, their idea of what they wanted was completely wrong and they want something completely different. Yeah. So it’s a fun process, you know, teaching them, you know, if they want to buy on the beach, well what do they want to be?
[00:20:24] They think they want to be close in, but then they realize that some of the most beautiful beaches are a little bit further out. You know, as you move further West and Malibu and get further from the city, you know, the wavelength. Changes the energy changes. It’s something very special. Obviously a positioning, whether you’re, if you want to have sunsets, you want to be West facing or Malibu Malibu’s fantastic for that.
[00:20:45] Some people love the sunrise and being able to see towards the East, which on this Cytopoint doom you get. So it’s, there’s a lot of different things to learn out here for sure.
[00:20:56] Warren Dow: [00:20:56] Looking for a personal stylist for your home. Check out Bo concept. One of their design consultants can help you make the most out of your space.
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[00:21:30] Is that true? You think like, like if the average turnover is seven years elsewhere? Is it
[00:21:35] Sandro Dazzan: [00:21:35] a good question? That’s a good question. Um, I would say it’s probably longer here than there is in the surrounding areas.
[00:21:44] Warren Dow: [00:21:44] Cause it’s like that in palace where it is like in the beach cities and not, not so much with Chevy.
[00:21:48] It jumps way up. Like double.
[00:21:50] Sandro Dazzan: [00:21:50] Yeah. No, I think so. We have a ton of longtime residents that have been here since the forties and fifties you’re starting to see a little bit of turnover, as you know, as you get older and you know some of those old original ranch houses, it’s a little sad because some of these communities that had the kind of old.
[00:22:06] Classic Malibu character are changing are the old ranch houses are getting torn down and the new homes are being built. You know, our community is a little bit at odds with that. They’re trying to pass a new ordinance now to limit the maximum size of a home that can be built because they don’t want to see this mansion ization that’s occurring in some of the other neighborhoods in Los Angeles and Los Angeles and preserve our rural character that we have here.
[00:22:31] Warren Dow: [00:22:31] Yeah. Makes sense. Why do you think so many celebrities. Live in Malibu.
[00:22:36] Sandro Dazzan: [00:22:36] I think they live here. The same reason that we all want to live here. We love open space. We love nature. We love the pace being a little bit slower. Privacy.
[00:22:47] Warren Dow: [00:22:47] Yeah, and just the geography lends itself to privacy and. It’s hard sort of to get here on some levels and hard to get outta here.
[00:22:56] Sandro Dazzan: [00:22:56] Exactly. You know, people complain that it’s too far. And to me, I think that’s one of the benefits of the charm or the charm. Now it’s cleansing, leaving the city behind you and coming out
[00:23:05] Warren Dow: [00:23:05] here. Yeah, I totally agree. I totally, let’s talk about some of the crazy pricing in real estate here. So the cofounder of the hard wreck cafe sold his mansion on billionaire’s beach, I think it was last April for a hundred and.
[00:23:18] Sandro Dazzan: [00:23:18] 110 million or 10 million. Yep. And the buyer completely gutted the house.
[00:23:22] Warren Dow: [00:23:22] Wow. Only in Malibu. Yeah. So that was the most expensive home sold in the U S last year. Do you think we’ll ever break that record? I know we have, and it’s not officially on the MLS, but the NBC universal executive, Ron Meyer has his home right at paradise Cove for 125
[00:23:38] Sandro Dazzan: [00:23:38] 25 yet.
[00:23:39] I don’t know if that house will break the record, but there are several estates here in Malibu that. Are well North of 100 million and approaching 200 and maybe over 200 million. Now if they sell or if they decide to sell will be the question. But I definitely think that we have homes in that caliber.
[00:23:56] Warren Dow: [00:23:56] So being Malibu centric, Sandra, I don’t know how much you pay attention to what’s happening. You know, I’m in Beverly Hills and Bel air and stuff, but you’ve seen some of that. Crazy stories. There’s $1 billion land deal, there’s, you know, 500 million, which is now down to 250 million or down below. And what do you think about those prices over there?
[00:24:15] Do you,
[00:24:15] Sandro Dazzan: [00:24:15] well, it’s different because there you have. The inventory of all these homes. So it’s a little tricky here in Malibu. We don’t have the inventory, we don’t have the development because it’s so hard to build here in Malibu or codes don’t allow for the sizes of homes that you’re seeing in town. So we’re not seeing this huge influx of all these spec homes like you’re seeing.
[00:24:37] Bel air with West Hollywood.
[00:24:38] Warren Dow: [00:24:38] So if you can get one through and, or it’s already built, it needs updated. That’s what you’re going to get. This crazy
[00:24:44] Sandro Dazzan: [00:24:44] Mondo. The existing larger homes and the ones that are, you know, in the pipeline that are under construction are the ones that are going to go up in value because of
[00:24:53] The code that’s going to be changed. That’s going to limit the size of the homes to 8,500 square feet potentially. So any home that’s larger is only going to go up in value. And unfortunately, the original little ranch homes are gonna go down in value because you can’t develop them to what you could have several years ago.
[00:25:10] Warren Dow: [00:25:10] And that makes sense. The band knew too. The edge owns a big parcel of land up here, right? Yeah,
[00:25:16] Sandro Dazzan: [00:25:16] he does. He owns a few,
[00:25:17] Warren Dow: [00:25:17] but yes. Is he developing? I read a while ago, he’s been trying
[00:25:20] Sandro Dazzan: [00:25:20] to, I just heard this morning that unfortunately it was denied. It went to the courts and breaking news been many, many years.
[00:25:29] And unfortunately for him, I think it’s a shame cause he had a beautiful design that I don’t think really would affect the public’s view of, of the hillside. Um, but they wanted to make an example of him and they did, which is a. Sad for him
[00:25:44] Warren Dow: [00:25:44] is the way up there. Like
[00:25:45] Sandro Dazzan: [00:25:45] it’s right above us. Yeah, it’s a above Sarah retreat.
[00:25:48] Warren Dow: [00:25:48] Okay, cool. By the way, for our listeners, we are broadcasting live. We’re actually not live well. Today’s live from Malibu, California. So yeah, I wish you were here with us. So let’s talk about some of the other mega sales in the area. What else sold above 50 or 60 in the last couple of years?
[00:26:05] Sandro Dazzan: [00:26:05] Well, we had a property above Malibu road on the Bluffs.
[00:26:08] It was on the beach side of Pacific coast highway, but not. Beachfront because he had Malborough down below, which sold for 85 million, plus another. I heard 10 to 20 million for the contents, and it was a spectacular, Scott Mitchell designed home, uh, that a Canadian billionaire purchased. Um, so a huge number for a home without beach frontage.
[00:26:30] You had a couple other bluff properties. Cindy Crawford’s a state that she, she actually bought a larger state, uh, and then split it in half. She bought the whole thing for 50, and then split a portion of it in half and sold that for 45 million.
[00:26:46] Warren Dow: [00:26:46] You know, it’s crazy. If you tried to name all the celebrities that live here.
[00:26:50] We’d be here for another hour and a half. Yeah. Like literally, right from share to Barbara Streisand and it just goes on and on and on, right? Yeah, sure. That’s crazy. So there’s a lot of scuttle by a lot of, you know, with the development, obviously the coastal commission, we talked about the edge, you know, his recent deal that got denied.
[00:27:08] Tell us about like how. Difficult or how, how does that whole sort of navigation on the coastal commission and the planning work here in Malibu?
[00:27:17] Sandro Dazzan: [00:27:17] Yeah. Well, the city of Malibu, we have our own local coastal plan, which includes the coastal commission’s guidelines. Our city council and our planning commission is really making it a point to preserve Malibu and our rural character and environment that we have here.
[00:27:32] That’s why it’s so restrictive to build. And that’s why they’re trying to limit the size of homes to what they’re calling, preserve the rural character that are trying to enact neighborhood standards. So instead of having a total developable square footage per plan, it would be based on the neighborhood.
[00:27:50] So if you have a neighborhood where the average home is 4,000 square feet, they want the largest home to be only 4,000 square feet.
[00:27:58] Warren Dow: [00:27:58] Got it. Got it. So the real estate industry has changed quite a bit in the last, well, it’s, it’s entirely changed in the last, say, 10 years. And even in the last three years, it’s, it’s even changing at a more accelerated rate.
[00:28:16] And you’ve seen a lot of consolidation with brokerages, and obviously the biggest is compass. You know, the newcomer who’s got a war chest of. Sure of private equity and a lot of money spending a lot of money, um, and making their moves. What, what do you think about the consolidation and the industry change?
[00:28:33] Sandro Dazzan: [00:28:33] You know, it’s inevitable. You have a lot of these older brokerages that. Or keeping up with today’s technology and marketing standards. So there’s definitely an opportunity for somebody to come in and take a lot of these agents that are unhappy. What’s amazing with the agency is we have a boutique family feel we have a culture behind their company.
[00:28:58] Which is very special, which when I came to the agency, obviously I knew how amazing their branding and their marketing was, but I wasn’t aware of of the culture. And when I got here. That’s really probably one of the most impressive things about our company is how I love working here. Everybody that works here loves it.
[00:29:15] We’re all a big family, and it makes selling real estate so much more fun when it’s a collaborative effort within the company instead of everybody within the company fighting. Um, you know, at my previous brokerage and a lot of the other big ones, you have all these agents fighting to be the top agent within their company.
[00:29:33] Uh, we’re here at the agency that’s
[00:29:35] Warren Dow: [00:29:35] totally different vibe, totally different vibe. But in previous podcasts, we interviewed Santiago Urana and Maricio and the same vibe you guys are, it’s all for one, one for all. Um, it’s, it’s really refreshing to see because it’s hard enough out there competing. With the market, let alone if you’re infighting in under a brokerage,
[00:29:53] Sandro Dazzan: [00:29:53] sell, refreshing after, you know, almost 13 years and my previous brokerage to come here and be able to curate my own office here as a managing partner with likeminded individuals and see it become so successful.
[00:30:07] And it’s been very gratifying.
[00:30:09] Warren Dow: [00:30:09] For sure. Very cool. And by the way, for fun, I asked Mauricio, what do you ever sell to compass? And he said, no way, no way. So you guys are going to be the agency for a long, so just another brokerage question. You think bigger is better?
[00:30:25] Sandro Dazzan: [00:30:25] I’m not necessarily, no. I can understand why some people think that, but honestly, once you get too big, the quality control becomes a lot more difficult.
[00:30:36] Warren Dow: [00:30:36] makes sense. You know, the market in Malibu is much kind of like the South Bay where, you know, it’s kind of in its own bubble. And I mean that in a good way where it kind of marches to its own drum and to its own tune it things are done differently in areas like this. It’s just the way it’s always been.
[00:30:54] And that really is sort of, um. Interesting as it relates to other brokers just trying to come in and expand. I mean, South Bay in particular, that has really been its own little thing and you know, Douglas element has come in and you can see is in South Bay. Now I’m missing some names. Compass has just arrived, but it’s been like, it’s been really, really hard for anyone to come in.
[00:31:17] And gain traction. Is Malibu kind of like that?
[00:31:19] Sandro Dazzan: [00:31:19] It definitely is. It’s also hard for agents. You know, a lot of agents want to break into the Malibu market and it’s a difficult market to get into.
[00:31:27] Warren Dow: [00:31:27] Malibu seems like it’s even like the 80 20 rules. One of my favorite rules, right?
[00:31:30] Sandro Dazzan: [00:31:30] It might even be 90 10 here,
[00:31:32] Warren Dow: [00:31:32] I think it’s 95 I like literally we could name, which we want on one hand.
[00:31:36] One hand, the guys in your, one of them that literally command. You know, 90% of the market, probably like five or six people.
[00:31:45] Sandro Dazzan: [00:31:45] Yeah. What’s exciting to see though is here at the agency Malibu is, is the young talent that’s coming in and that’s starting to take hold and do with a lot of the business. You know, a lot of the, the agents here in Malibu have been here for many, many years and they’re older and they’re starting to retire.
[00:32:02] Uh, and I think Malibu is just on its upswing here. And fortunately we have the top young agents in the city here in this office.
[00:32:10] Warren Dow: [00:32:10] That’s great
[00:32:11] Sandro Dazzan: [00:32:11] at say, the average age in this office is probably 30 maybe less. Yeah.
[00:32:19] Warren Dow: [00:32:19] And you look at the average age of the top 1% and you know, and it’s a lot older than 30 but that dynamic is changing rapidly
[00:32:28] Sandro Dazzan: [00:32:28] now.
[00:32:28] And that’s what I tell her. My newer agents in this office, as you know, they get, they get bummed out on a deal that didn’t work out or how something went down. And I remind them . This is the beginning of your career. You know? Imagine where you’re going to be 10 15 years from now. You know, we’re going to be dominating.
[00:32:43] Warren Dow: [00:32:43] Yeah. And prices will keep going up. They still will. Yeah. So the, the only sort of caveat to that is there’s a whole nother school of thought, right? And this is where there’s big money being spent on wall street. I’m trying to, I’m going to screw this word up, but this are intermediate. Did I say that correctly?
[00:33:04] Um, the, yeah, the agent, right. Cause they look at industries and they go, how do we make it more efficient? And what that means is how do we squeeze out all the costs and maximize yield? Sure. It’s like,
[00:33:15] Sandro Dazzan: [00:33:15] it’s like Uber or Airbnb is different disruptors. And I think that, yeah, you, you are going to see that in the real estate industry.
[00:33:22] Definitely. But it’s going to be a lot harder for that to happen in areas like Malibu. Where there are so many different types of homes, so many different neighborhoods. Local knowledge here in Malibu is so hard to come by, and that is why people still need a real estate agent here in Malibu. If you’re buying in a neighborhood that’s cookie cutter, that’s, you know, these plan unit developments.
[00:33:46] You won’t really need a real estate agent as much here. You really do,
[00:33:50] Warren Dow: [00:33:50] and I think it’s also the price points too, right? Like multimillion dollar homes. It’s interesting when you study like commerce, e-commerce, there’s different products that just don’t do well online. Like if you look at sunglasses, people want to put them on and see how they look.
[00:34:05] They want to where they want to check them out, right? It’s not something you’re just going to buy online per se. And homes are kind of like that too. Yeah, and I look
[00:34:12] Sandro Dazzan: [00:34:12] at myself as a, as a real estate advisor to my clients, my high end clients, they have a portfolio of homes, and I’m here managing their portfolio of homes.
[00:34:21] It’s in Malibu. And you’re seeing more and more international buyers wanting to . Getting into this market to be able to be one of those advisors, I think is, you know, where my value is for sure.
[00:34:32] Warren Dow: [00:34:32] No, that’s great. Well, you’ve done an amazing job and continue to do amazing job. So I want to put you on the spot now, and it’s trying to get some funny stories out of you.
[00:34:40] Sandra, can you tell us a funny sort of, can’t believe it happened? Real estate story. I know you’ve got a few
[00:34:51] Sandro Dazzan: [00:34:51] They’re really not funny.
[00:34:54] Warren Dow: [00:34:54] Kind of scary that I’m. It could be scary, like just something that’s
[00:34:59] Sandro Dazzan: [00:34:59] off security clients. Really.
[00:35:03] Warren Dow: [00:35:03] Lots of things about this business, right?
[00:35:04] Sandro Dazzan: [00:35:04] It’s like it’s, we’re managing personalities and people and emotions and, you know, divorces. I had a, you know, unfortunately, divorce is a big part of our business and real estate, and I’ve seen some nasty ones.
[00:35:18] One where, you know, the wife didn’t want to leave the home and we were in escrow and it was a $15 million home. And she literally, the husband came onto the property and she attacked him with a rake and had to call the police in front of the buyers. It was a whole
[00:35:32] Warren Dow: [00:35:32] ordeal. A whole, yeah. Yeah. This is what you do to turn that commission.
[00:35:36] You gotta. You gotta here. Yeah. It’s funny. I’ve been publishing digs for nine years and. I feel like sometimes I’m like a therapist.
[00:35:44] Sandro Dazzan: [00:35:44] Oh yeah, no, I’m talking to definitely
[00:35:46] Warren Dow: [00:35:46] shrinks. This has happened and you wouldn’t believe what this hand will, this sale and then,
[00:35:49] Sandro Dazzan: [00:35:49] Oh, residential real estate is, a lot of emotions are involved in the transaction.
[00:35:54] Warren Dow: [00:35:54] Well, it’s high dollar volume. It’s the largest transaction of anyone’s life for the most part.
[00:35:59] Sandro Dazzan: [00:35:59] And they’re emotionally attached. They have memories and history in the home. It’s not an easy transaction for some people. And we’re hired to make the process as easy as possible. And it’s not just the paperwork and, and the money, but it’s also, you know, emotionally to get them through it.
[00:36:15] Warren Dow: [00:36:15] Well, and you’re on a different sort of sphere in terms of like, that’s true for real estate in the U S anywhere, right? In Riverside or wherever it is. Right. But in Malibu. You’re dealing with this level of clientele and celebrity and professional athletes and business leaders, like how. Tell us about that dynamic.
[00:36:36] How do you, do you have to adjust to that? Do you have to, how do you
[00:36:40] Sandro Dazzan: [00:36:40] navigate? That’s how you’re successful in real estate is being able to adapt to a client, whether it’s a seller that you’re representing or it’s a buyer walking in for a showing, you know, it’s, it’s understanding how either that buyer wants the house to be shown to them.
[00:36:54] Uh, or how that seller wants the business to be handled, uh, whether it’s through their business manager or if it’s through them. Do they want a text? Do they want a phone call and it, and it’s adapting to their needs.
[00:37:05] Warren Dow: [00:37:05] So, but not everyone’s gonna be different. So if you’re, if you’re listing shares, house is going to be different maybe than Barbara Streisand or something.
[00:37:12] It’s like they’re gonna have, okay, you have to deal with their gap
[00:37:14] Sandro Dazzan: [00:37:14] or personalities. And that’s why I love this job because it’s never the same. It’s never boring. It’s high a stress, which I like, and it’s. Always something new. You’re never seeing the same thing again.
[00:37:28] Warren Dow: [00:37:28] Yeah. It beats wall street, right?
[00:37:30] Sandro Dazzan: [00:37:30] It does.
[00:37:32] Warren Dow: [00:37:32] What’s your take on the million dollar listing and all these new reality TV shows about real estate?
[00:37:37] Sandro Dazzan: [00:37:37] Other very entertaining, um, you know, I, I think, uh, the guys that are on the show had been very successful. The shows definitely helped their careers for sure.
[00:37:48] Warren Dow: [00:37:48] It sort of perpetuates the mytho how easy this is and how glamorous
[00:37:52] Sandro Dazzan: [00:37:52] this show makes.
[00:37:52] You know, a lot of the. The stuff that’s on the show is made for the show. It’s not the reality of the business, but you know, the guys that are successful, they’re not successful just because they’re on the TV show. They’re successful because they’re successful and they’re really good at what they do.
[00:38:07] Warren Dow: [00:38:07] Yeah. Before they were on a TV show, that’s why they’re on the TV show. Right, exactly. Closing thoughts. What are your two pieces of advice you would give your younger self?
[00:38:16] Sandro Dazzan: [00:38:16] I think it goes back to the communication thought we had earlier. It would be too. Really communicate from your heart and from your gut.
[00:38:25] Don’t hold anything back in life. That definitely, uh, would’ve it came in handy younger, uh, earlier on in my life for sure. That’s
[00:38:34] Warren Dow: [00:38:34] part of the, that’s how we become who we, who we become though. Right? You gotta. You have to fail. Failures only leads to success.
[00:38:40] Sandro Dazzan: [00:38:40] Yeah. And you know, never give up. Continue. You know, this is what we have a long life ahead of us and a long career, and you’re going to see many disappointments and many failures along the way, and it’s always looking forward.
[00:38:53] I learned that, you know, early on in my career for my mom is always looking forward, continue working hard, downmarkets out markets. If you closed a big deal or if you haven’t closed anything in awhile, it’s still the same. You keep working hard and keep going for it.
[00:39:09] Warren Dow: [00:39:09] Are you one of those individuals that sets crazy goals for yourself?
[00:39:13] Like do you go, okay, this last year I did 160 million this year I’m going to do. 200 million and in the year for that, or do you just focus in grind?
[00:39:20] Sandro Dazzan: [00:39:20] I just focus and grind
[00:39:22] Warren Dow: [00:39:22] and the results come
[00:39:23] Sandro Dazzan: [00:39:23] that result and that’s why I love this business because it’s very results driven. You know, you work really hard and it pays
[00:39:30] Warren Dow: [00:39:30] off.
[00:39:31] I think that’s a common trait because I haven’t asked that specific question, but I’m always curious, but it seems like everyone who’s doing North of 100 million, which is insanely hard to do, like insanely hard to do. It’s focused, it’s day, hour by hour
[00:39:48] Sandro Dazzan: [00:39:48] by day, and it’s nonstop and you’re always working.
[00:39:52] Warren Dow: [00:39:52] what’s funny, I always ask
[00:39:53] Sandro Dazzan: [00:39:53] them, what excuses?
[00:39:55] Warren Dow: [00:39:55] What’d you do last year? I always, cause I look at it from mice to be CEO. I look at like business, like numbers, like what’d you do? What’d you do last year? And most of the top agents, we don’t, I don’t, I don’t know. They might know 160 million out there, but they don’t know.
[00:40:08] But some don’t even know. I don’t know. I sold, uh, X number of homes or it’s just fascinating because they’re just. They’re grinding
[00:40:14] Sandro Dazzan: [00:40:14] and working hard, and it’s co, and our job is constantly, you know, the reason the top agents are successful is because they’re always available. I mean, even if you’re on vacation with your family, you’re on your phone, you’re sending emails, you’re closing deals because the work never stops.
[00:40:27] The real estate doesn’t stop him
[00:40:28] Warren Dow: [00:40:28] 24 seven three 65 and you
[00:40:30] Sandro Dazzan: [00:40:30] got to love it. And if you, as long as you love it and you work really hard, you can be successful in this business.
[00:40:36] Warren Dow: [00:40:36] What would you tell our audience that something that they’d be really surprised to know about you.
[00:40:41] Sandro Dazzan: [00:40:41] Hmm that I love cats and two at home.
[00:40:46] Warren Dow: [00:40:46] What are the names?
[00:40:47] Sandro Dazzan: [00:40:47] Uh, Oscar and Mario.
[00:40:49] Warren Dow: [00:40:49] All right. Shout out to Oscar and Mario
[00:40:51] Sandro Dazzan: [00:40:51] and if it was up to my fiance, we would have three more,
[00:40:54] Warren Dow: [00:40:54] but that’s at least anytime soon. No, that’s funny. I’ve been a cat person my whole life, and this is the first time I’m like, I don’t own a cat. We have a dog. The kids want to go.
[00:41:05] You should go rescue a cat. I know. I know. To the shelter today. Come on. I know. Let’s go after this. We go, honey. I brought home a cat and I wonder how my dog chip would like that. I’d probably like it all. They’ll become friends. Do you have a favorite book?
[00:41:20] Sandro Dazzan: [00:41:20] Anything by ion Rand? I really enjoy. Cool. Start reading that when I was at UCLA as an economic student.
[00:41:27] Warren Dow: [00:41:27] Awesome. Do you have a favorite business leader? Anyone who you look up to or aspire to be more like, let’s
[00:41:35] Sandro Dazzan: [00:41:35] see, you know. Some of my friends that are very successful. Adam Bernhard, who was one of my close friends and a entrepreneur, I always ask him for advice and look up to him. He’s been a great mentor for me.
[00:41:49] Warren Dow: [00:41:49] Cool. I know you’re a surfer, long board or short board. Uh,
[00:41:52] Sandro Dazzan: [00:41:52] you know, as I’m getting older, the boards are getting longer,
[00:41:55] Warren Dow: [00:41:55] so I’m, I’m the same. I’ve been surfing ISIS or Malibu as a kid and like, and you know, had my. Interesting. This is, I’m dating myself, but my high school ID card used to get me into the gate, one of the Gates and point to, Oh wow.
[00:42:10] So we used to surf there as we were locals, even though we were Westlake village locals.
[00:42:15] Sandro Dazzan: [00:42:15] But yeah, I look at my old short boards from when I was like in high school and college, and. I don’t even think I, they would float me anymore, so I need something with some more foam.
[00:42:23] Warren Dow: [00:42:23] Exactly. I’m in the same boat. I’m surfing like an eight eight Oh yeah, me too.
[00:42:27] I’m perfectly fine with that. I can
[00:42:28] Sandro Dazzan: [00:42:28] turn it. It’s like the cruise gets try to boost any airs or anything, that’s for sure.
[00:42:35] Warren Dow: [00:42:35] All right. Malibu point or point to,
[00:42:38] Sandro Dazzan: [00:42:38] uh, to
[00:42:39] Warren Dow: [00:42:39] Zuma beach.
[00:42:40] Sandro Dazzan: [00:42:40] Or I’m going to go with Zuma. Yeah. Yeah. I own a property. Appointments have a key. I surf a little doom. Uh, obviously the wave at first point is the best, one of the best waves in the world.
[00:42:52] Uh, but the crowd, you know, one of the main reasons for surfing is to kind of escape and be in the moment. It’s kinda hard to do that at first point. So I like finding my own little peak and Zuma with a couple of friends.
[00:43:04] Warren Dow: [00:43:04] You know, it’s crazy. I was just telling this to another dad and my younger kids, uh, baseball, we were talking about this Zuma beach.
[00:43:12] This is how times have changed when I was a kid, and I want to say like when I was in sixth grade, seventh grade, uh, parents used to drop us off at Zuma beach on the way to work at like five, six in the morning and pick us up at six o’clock at night. And I had like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and a towel and no sunscreen.
[00:43:31] It’s like. You know what I mean? Yeah. It’s crazy and we can’t do that these days. It’s like it’s world has changed, but Nobu or paradise Cove beach cafe,
[00:43:40] Sandro Dazzan: [00:43:40] Nobu. That’s an easy
[00:43:41] Warren Dow: [00:43:41] one. Nobody at the top. Top.
[00:43:44] Sandro Dazzan: [00:43:44] No, that’s a no brainer.
[00:43:46] Warren Dow: [00:43:46] That’s awesome. What’s your favorite vacation spot?
[00:43:50] Sandro Dazzan: [00:43:50] Ibiza. Spain here. We just got back from there.
[00:43:53] Nice. One of my favorite places in the world. That’s a, as I’m very magnetic energy, unlike anywhere else I’ve been.
[00:43:59] Warren Dow: [00:43:59] Very cool. So is there anything else you want to share with their audience that we haven’t touched on or any
[00:44:04] Sandro Dazzan: [00:44:04] other? I just want to say thank you for having me more in a really enjoyed this.
[00:44:08] It’s been a pleasure. Likewise on the show.
[00:44:10] Warren Dow: [00:44:10] Likewise, I think we got a chance in already. It’s got a chance to learn a lot more about you, the person. We know your names of your cats, which is we didn’t know definitely before the podcast started. Continued success to you and keep living the
[00:44:23] Sandro Dazzan: [00:44:23] dream and Malibu.
[00:44:24] I will. Thank you so much.
[00:44:26] Warren Dow: [00:44:26] You got it.
[00:44:36] And that wraps up this episode. Thank you for tuning in and we hope you found some value. Please share, subscribe, and leave a review. Find us on iTunes and your favorite podcast provider. Until next time.
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